Stephanie Sammons photo by Debra Gloria
Stephanie Sammons on the Progress and the Pain of Time and Evolution
Texan singer/songwriter Stephanie Sammons released her debut full-length album, Time and Evolution on May 3rd, 2024, having previously released two EPs. This time around, she worked with Mary Bragg as Producer, recording at Studio B in Nashville, and the songs on the album build on Sammon’s seven years of studying songwriting with some of her biggest heroes via Performing Songwriter Creative Workshops.
Having studied with Mary Gauthier as well as Emily Saliers, Beth Nielsen Chapman, Jonathan Brooke, Suzy Bogguss, and more, Sammons workshopped many of the songs on Time and Evolution, intentionally taking on personal subjects that reflect a questioning attitude, particularly towards elements of her conservative Baptist upbringing. Sammons also brings her perspective as a member of the LGBTQ community to her songwriting, sharing stories of exclusion while being particularly welcoming towards difference herself. I spoke with Stephanie Sammons about her time in workshops so far and the many elements that make up the songs on Time and Evolution.
Americana Highways: I think it’s wonderful that you worked with Mary Bragg as producer of this album. I’ve spoken with her before about her journey into production work.
Stephanie Sammons: Since I’m a Texas artist, I knew of her because she had worked with Grace Pettis. Grace and I didn’t know each other at the time, though we do now. We had a loose connection through friends of friends. I really like the work that Mary did for Grace and I knew that she was getting more into producing work by other artists, and I just knew that she was the person to produce my next record. I knew she would understand my songs, and my messages, and my melodies.
I did reach out to her before she went to Berklee, in the middle of covid, knowing she was busy, but letting her know that I’d love to work with her. She was very gracious. Last year, I had done a songwriting workshop with another songwriter that Mary is close to, and I had told her that I wanted Mary to produce my next record. They said that I should reach out again, so I did. She immediately said to send her some of my music, and that’s all she wrote. That was in May. We were in the studio by June or July, recording.
AH: I keep hearing stories lately about someone’s friend saying to them “Do that thing!” And then they do it, and it changes everything. I love it that other people play that role in our life, making suggestions that we ought to listen to.
SS: And, it’s that we’re listening. These are whispers and you either hear them or you don’t. You were listening, also. You’re open to it.
AH: It takes a certain humility to be open, assuming that you don’t always know the best thing. Can I ask you to share about the creative workshops that you’ve been going to? They seem to have played a big role in your current album.
SS: There are Performing Songwriter workshops where the whole program was created by Lydia Hutchinson. She used to be the publisher of Performing Songwriter magazine for years and years. She decided to fold that publication, which was an agonizing decision, but then she had built relationships with singer/songwriters and decided to launch these singer/songwriter workshops. My wife actually gave me, for Christmas, a workshop with Mary Gauthier in 2016.
These are small groups of 15 people. You really get to know, not only your peers, who are doing the workshop, but the instructors. And because I’ve been to so many, I’ve developed friendships with some of the teachers. They’ve almost taken an interest in where I’m going since I’ve worked so hard to get better. It’s really been awesome to have that support. You can’t rely on external validation, of course, but it sure has been nice.
Over the last seven years, I’ve been to about 30 workshops, and I’m doing three more this year. I’m hooked. I’ve really gone to school on songwriting since my last EP.
AH: That is an amazing commitment. Consistency like that has got to make a difference, too. To go that much probably changes the wiring in your brain.
SS: It really has been life-changing.
AH: What level of ability or experience do you need in order to take one of these classes?
SS: Really, none. I think having ideas for songs, however you are working on that, is necessary. Most people are interested in writing songs. There are a handful of people who write lyrics and poetry, but mostly, you don’t have to play an instrument, because there are plenty of us who do. There are all kinds of different levels. Over the years, Lydia has refined things, and most of the stuff I go to now is for the alums. The alums have been to more of the workshops over the years. Most of us do play the guitar or piano, and most of us have written a good number of songs. We work at a higher level based on where we are.
AH: Wow, so you’re now in a place where you’re helping others?
SS: Not necessarily, though that’s kind of my dream. I would love Lydia to someday call me and ask me to be a teacher. I would really love that. I have boxes full of notes. I swear I’m going to get organized and put them into a book about songwriting from these Grammy-nominated and Grammy-winning songwriters. I also think all of this prepared me to be vulnerable on stage in a performance. If I get a little nervous, I say to myself, “You know what? You’ve stood up in front of Emily Saliers, one of your heroes from the Indigo Girls, and played songs that weren’t even done yet! You can do anything!” But it’s scary, though they are all so supportive.
AH: I’m sure what’s embarrassing to us wouldn’t necessarily feel that way to them. That comes down to the stories that you’re sharing, too, I’m sure. One that comes to mind is the song, “Faithless.” How did that one come together?
SS: For that song, I did have vignettes in mind, but what prompted that song was a friend of mine from high school who committed suicide. She was someone who was on Facebook consistently posting happy stuff. I was so shocked and struck by how fooled we could all be by Facebook and not know what they were going through. I always wanted to write about my sister and her struggles, too. She has been a muse in some respects, and appears in my other songs.
I don’t necessarily talk about it, because the songs can be more universal, but that’s in the second verse of “Faithless.” We’re 14 months apart in age, and I’m the older sister, and I remember all these things she went through. I was too young and wrapped up in my own life to be there during her darkest hours. Simply put, her living hell’s right there in her eyes, and I should have known. She’s alive, and she’s doing alright, but the song is about questioning indiscriminate suffering. And why some people suffer and others don’t. It’s about a lot of stuff put into one song.
AH: It’s got that dense weaving of elements that I think makes for a great song. Sometimes a very simple song just works, but it was obvious to me that a lot of time was spent putting this song together right out of all these little pieces. They work together in an emotional way. I also really appreciate the sound of the song being softer and more reflective, but also the way that you handle traditional religious imagery is interesting. You keep it kind of at arms’ length.
SS: The religious imagery is such an ingrained part of my being, but then I’m trying to unlearn a lot of that harmful doctrine that I was raised on. But I truly have those questions. If someone hurts so immensely that they leave this earth by their own doing, what happens to their soul? It’s not fair that they had this lot in life, but these people are saying that they go to hell. It just pisses me off that they think that they have all the answers. It’s not really meant to be a religious song, but what do they have faith in? What about all these people and what happens to them? How can you dismiss them? There’s some of that attitude in there.
AH: It’s definitely questioning. I think you do a great job of questioning in a way that’s accessible to people no matter what their own background may be and where they are coming from. Being personal yourself helps with that.
SS: I love that. I think you’re right on. There’s a part of me that wants to be sensitive and respectful to what anyone believes, right, wrong, or indifferent. Who’s to say? But yes, I am trying to say things in a more gentle way because I have this family. It’s very scary coming from a deeply religious extended family and put out a song titled “Faithless.” [Laughs] I’ve been a little scared about it, but there have only been one cousin and one aunt who get it. They’ve been incredible. But no one else. I know they are thinking, “She’s such a lost soul. We’ll pray for her!”
AH: I come from a very similar background, so I can definitely hear what you’re saying. You can often feel very closely watched by relatives. But I don’t have to hand anyone my album! You have your struggles there. Some of the same things are coming up in the song “Make Me Believe,” but it’s a very different song.
SS: It is a lighter song. It’s more about people and losing your faith in love. Why are there always strings attached, even in romantic relationships? It’s just because we’re human and we have to work on giving people grace. We need to realize that we all have our issues. That song was inspired by this realization that ulterior motives are sometimes attached to love.
AH: Are you speaking about all kinds of love in the song?
SS: All kinds of love, whether familial relationships or others. There are all kinds of conflicts in families where love also exists. It’s also about human nature. Can we do nice things for each other without expecting something in return? Sometimes romantic relationships and familial relationships are the safest place to be an asshole, right? [Laughs] They are going to put up with you.
AH: Certainly, the demands we put on people are so much worse in relationships than anywhere else. We can be very dictatorial with those in our lives.
SS: Right, rather than accepting where we are right now. It’s hard sometimes.
AH: The song from the album that really knocked me out was “Billboard Sign” and, of course, the title of the album, Time and Evolution, seems to be taken from the lyrics. I feel like a lot of stuff comes together in that song, and that it encapsulates so much. Was that a workshop song?
SS: No, it actually was not. That was the last song that I wrote for this album. I didn’t have any of my mentors on that one to review that one. I just wrote it in a way that I felt was appropriate. I was honoring our story, my family’s story, which I know is the story for many LGBTQ people who feel rejected by their faith and their family. That’s where that song came from. I wondered, “How can I tell this story in a way that is kind? And in a way that hopefully isn’t messy and doesn’t bring in all the details.” I know there is pain there. You can hear the pain.
I did play it for my parents, and my dad heard the line about, “Daddy says, ‘Don’t bother coming home.” There’s some space there, and he said, “I didn’t say that!” I said, “Dad, hold on, listen.” The line after that says, “…unless you plan to come alone.” And then he said, “Oh, yeah, I did say that.”
AH: Wow, yes, that is intense. Unfortunately, many people can probably recognize this song. I do myself. But something really great about the song is that you use images, and you use quotes, and you’re putting them together in a way that whatever strikes the audience, they can choose to contemplate further. Like you said, you’re not necessarily bringing in all the backstory. It’s selective.
SS: I was very selective about that and I did want to share the message. I don’t know if it’s easy to understand, but there’s a segment in there, which you might call a bridge, that says, “I thank God for the mourning dove,” which represents peace. That whole section is about time and evolution. With my family, when I first came out, not by choice, I was confronted at the dinner table by my dad when I was 27. I had never been so scared in my life, so I did what a good Southern Baptist gal would do, and I told the truth.
That led to a decade of distance, separation, and some really ugly stuff that happened. The things that were sent to me were brutal. The rejection by a parent is one of the most painful things. But I never gave up on them. I just kept trying. It literally took a decade. I’ve been with my wife for 18 years now. It took one year after we got together for me to bring her over, and they were so uncomfortable, but they had said, “Okay, we’ll meet her.” That was the beginning of healing.
My wife had adopted two children when I came into the picture, and my parents are their grandparents now. But that doesn’t erase the damage that was done that makes me who I am today. There’s still the pain of “What a waste. That was a lot of lost time.” That’s the whole point, I guess, of the song.
Thank you very much, Stephanie Sammons, for chatting with us. Find more details here on her website: https://stephaniesammons.com/
Performing Songwriter Workshop: https://performingsongwriter.com/
Enjoy our previous coverage here: Stephanie Sammons “Time and Evolution”